tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post5837739953224180777..comments2024-03-29T10:36:26.431+00:00Comments on Senator Sam Mézec: A Rebuttal to JEP Propaganda 3 Re PlémontSenator Sam Mézechttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04072393815446147249noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-43708423248956030862012-12-21T07:25:20.820+00:002012-12-21T07:25:20.820+00:00Plemont? Plemont who?
Already just a footnote in h...Plemont? Plemont who?<br />Already just a footnote in history but as you and your thousands of readers know Sam, 2013 will witness the first ever "Jersey Reform Day" celebrations when you all will be waving flags, blowing trumpets and remembering the hundreds of unsung Jersey heroes form the past and present on 28 September.<br />See<br />www.tomgruchy.blogspot.com<br />and start planning now - but don't forget to let us know what you will be doing in good time so that we can share our experiences etc<br /><br />Have a creative festive holiday ....<br />TomTom Gruchyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01384387998228996741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-77300148304339242972012-12-19T22:17:02.039+00:002012-12-19T22:17:02.039+00:00Hi Sam.
Put up some Audio of Senator Bailhache at...Hi Sam.<br /><br />Put up some Audio of Senator Bailhache attacking who ever doesn't agree with himself, the Jersey People need to wake up & see this man for what he is. A Bully & a Spoiled One at that.<br /><br />You & your readers can Listen <a href="http://thejerseyway.blogspot.com/2012/12/senator-bailhache-attacks-everyone.html" rel="nofollow">HERE</a><br /><br />TJW.thejerseywayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02401815536804277436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-55382970666581541252012-12-18T21:05:54.992+00:002012-12-18T21:05:54.992+00:00Tom, good idea for a meeting. I'll try and get...Tom, good idea for a meeting. I'll try and get one organised in the first few weeks of the new year. Nows obviously not a good time because of people being away and family commitments etc. So will get in touch with you when one is organised.Senator Sam Mézechttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04072393815446147249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-69196502611409276532012-12-18T20:56:09.395+00:002012-12-18T20:56:09.395+00:00Because there were fewer States Members back then ...Because there were fewer States Members back then and they did not stand candidates against independents that supported most of the parties programme. Their perspective made up the majority of the house.<br /><br />Doing some reading on it now and seeing a few interesting things. Namely that the JEP openly supported the JPP, and that's not a silly conspiracy theory, the paper openly admitted it. This is why I think the very first commenters issue with me referring to Senator Bailhache as their favourite Senator as "bitchy" is not a good criticism. The JEP has a track record of openly supporting or opposing various things/ candidates/ policies, so me pointing it out is not unreasonably.<br /><br />Interestingly, the opposing party in that 1945 election were the Jersey Democratic Movement, which was a Socialist coalition led by Norman Le Brocq and others who had led the resistance in the island to the Nazi occupation. <br /><br />The JEP refused to print their manifesto, even when they offered to pay for it as a normal advert.<br /><br />Their manifesto included these points - <br />Reconstruction of the States Assembly<br />(a) Sole members to be deputies, each elected for three years in the proportion of <br />one for each 1,500 inhabitants. Property qualifications abolished for both <br />candidates and electors.<br />(b) A Council or Cabinet will be appointed, each member of which shall be in <br />charge of a States Department.<br />(c) Deputies to receive adequate remuneration.<br />(d) Electorate shall have power of recall over deputies when two-thirds of the <br />voting register shall demand their resignation.<br />(e) Electorate to include all males and females over the age of 21, with the <br />exception of (1) Foreigners; and (2) Citizens of the British Commonwealth <br />with a local residence of less than one year.<br />(f) Voting to be by the preferential method<br />(g) The Assembly shall be the only legislative body in the Island. Judicial power <br />shall be vested in the Royal Court which shall be independent of the <br />Assembly. The title of Bailiff shall be reserved for the Chief Magistrate.<br />(h) A Permanent Committee of Constables shall be formed to watch over <br />parochial affairs<br /><br />Isn't it amazing how a party that was clearly years ahead of everyone else at the time (and even many today) was treated so contemptibly?<br /><br />This is the historical trend of attitude to socialism. As Tony Benn said - "It's the same each time with progress. First they ignore you, then they say you're mad, then dangerous, then there's a pause and then you can't find anyone who disagrees with you."<br /><br />Ladies and Gents, always remember that this is what the JEP always has done and still does to this day.Senator Sam Mézechttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04072393815446147249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-82804276971863857142012-12-18T17:32:11.778+00:002012-12-18T17:32:11.778+00:00Senator Bailhache on the politics hour on BBC Radi...Senator Bailhache on the politics hour on BBC Radio Jersey on Sunday -<br /><br />http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p011dyb2/Gwyn_GarfieldBennett_16_12_2012/<br /><br />He gave a little bit of a giggle and odd answer when asked if parties are being formed. Sounds like it might be a possibility. Not the first time I've heard a rumour like this.<br /><br />Bring it on, I say.Senator Sam Mézechttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04072393815446147249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-56370161994706231472012-12-18T16:47:41.102+00:002012-12-18T16:47:41.102+00:00How did the Progressives win power. Only 11 of the...How did the Progressives win power. Only 11 of them got elected?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-27795964544090024612012-12-18T16:34:15.069+00:002012-12-18T16:34:15.069+00:00I disagree. There are no party politics by any def...I disagree. There are no party politics by any definition of the words. What we have is a 'council of ministers'. It's impossible to behave like a COM without seeming a bit like a party. But they are not a party and we do not have party politics either overtly or covertly. We have a Council of Ministers and how they behave, vote etc is entirely consistent with that.<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-47898847668991460592012-12-18T16:07:05.596+00:002012-12-18T16:07:05.596+00:00Jersey has covert party politics and it has ever s...Jersey has covert party politics and it has ever since the end of the overt party politics a few decades ago when the Jersey Progressives (no relation to my brand of "progressiveness" won power then voluntarily disbanded because it was seen as the easiest way to maintain their power. Every government since then has been an ideological continuation of that party.<br /><br />All you have to do is look at voting patterns on policy matters and see that there clearly exists a whip system.Senator Sam Mézechttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04072393815446147249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-46126483294729199882012-12-18T11:47:33.695+00:002012-12-18T11:47:33.695+00:00Party politics in Jersey only seems to exist in th...Party politics in Jersey only seems to exist in the minds of those who disagree with the majority.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-46448398052504609582012-12-18T11:44:28.404+00:002012-12-18T11:44:28.404+00:00It should not include lost profit. The value of a ...It should not include lost profit. The value of a plot of land is what someone would pay for it. No one would include lost profit in the price they would pay for a piece of development land. Land valuations do not include lost profit. Mr Hemmings would be free to use the proceeds to make a profit elsewhere. He should not profit twice.<br /><br />If a developer bought the land from Mr Hemmings he would expect the price to allow him to make a profit. <br /><br />If we had considered a land swap instead then we would not have swapped Plemont (worth say 7.8M) for another piece of land worth £14M.<br /><br />This proposition failed because many of our politicians were simply too stupid to grasp that simple fact.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-75577117025257230782012-12-17T22:50:49.519+00:002012-12-17T22:50:49.519+00:00"Also, the market value does not include Mr H..."Also, the market value does not include Mr Hemmings lost profit. Something many states members failed to grasp"<br /><br />That's EXACTLY the point. It SHOULD include the lost profit. Nobody should be surprised if those promoting a flawed process get given short shrift. A skilled and diplomatic negotiator who did not reach for the lawyers as a first resort might have achieved a better outcome for the island. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-47658658795122928512012-12-17T18:34:21.407+00:002012-12-17T18:34:21.407+00:00I too noted the calls by certain States Members to...I too noted the calls by certain States Members to use unemployed labour on some form of workfare scheme to clear Plemont.<br /><br />When analysis starts getting too close to the uncomfortable truth, there is sure to an Anonymous jumping up to allege "paranoid conspiracy theorist". It almost confirms the validity of the argument.<br /><br />Of course we have party politics in Jersey, its just that its a one party state of the Right. Interestingly the Plemont debacle shattered Establishment party unity in an unprecedented fashion. The Jersey Tories were all over the show. Ideological inversion and confusion was everywhere..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-21646221381607362232012-12-17T17:43:59.654+00:002012-12-17T17:43:59.654+00:00What is the right way to take the suggestion that ...What is the right way to take the suggestion that I am a "paranoid conspiracy theorist"?<br />I don't want to get paranopid about it but I am puzzled to know what this means...<br />...and if there is a god and that is how I think (whatever that means)the relatinship with party politics is also a bit obscure...so any further clarification would be appreciated...<br />...are you two anonymous beings in any way related ?Tom Gruchyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01384387998228996741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-59798950749219632712012-12-17T09:39:59.446+00:002012-12-17T09:39:59.446+00:00If that's how people think then thank god we d...If that's how people think then thank god we don't have party politics in Jersey.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-45648830968819318452012-12-17T09:17:32.303+00:002012-12-17T09:17:32.303+00:00The states top valuation of £7.8M, when you take s...The states top valuation of £7.8M, when you take site clearance costs into account, values each plot at around £325K. I think this is quite generous when you take the build cost of granite houses into account.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-48105094774044797332012-12-17T09:08:44.937+00:002012-12-17T09:08:44.937+00:00A market valuation is based on 28 x net sale value...A market valuation is based on 28 x net sale value less build cost and less profit expectation. If the houses realise £900k each then a 14m valuation would only leave £400K per house for the build cost and the profit. Clearly this makes 14M ridiculous.<br /><br />The States 'amateur valuers' have been well and truly conned.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-70821669644303558262012-12-17T09:04:15.640+00:002012-12-17T09:04:15.640+00:00Tom, don't take this the wrong way but you sou...Tom, don't take this the wrong way but you sound a bit like a paranoid conspiracy theorist.<br /><br />Comments like "embryo plan of this government to draw the "Third Sector" (Charities mostly) under its control." do sound a bit silly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-25694779271908749362012-12-17T08:58:50.916+00:002012-12-17T08:58:50.916+00:00You are missing the point. Just because Mr Hemming...You are missing the point. Just because Mr Hemmings wants to sell at 14M that does not make 14M the market value. The CP process is legally bound to determine the market value if the parties can't agree.<br /><br />Also, the market value does not include Mr Hemmings lost profit. Something many states members failed to grasp.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-24954610117098520482012-12-16T18:06:00.293+00:002012-12-16T18:06:00.293+00:00"If more work had been done before, the propo..."If more work had been done before, the proposition would have easily been won."<br /><br />What more could have been done? The states valuations were up to 7.8M making it pretty impossible for them to offer any more. The developer wanted 14M and wasn't going to budge. I understand he turned down requests to meet PB?<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-58936491294473448452012-12-16T18:01:05.621+00:002012-12-16T18:01:05.621+00:00How could it have been less flawed? It represented...How could it have been less flawed? It represented the only option available that would have saved plemont from development.<br /><br />Negotiation had gone as far as it could. Any further negotiation would have been futile. Nat. Trust committed to as much as they possibly could. There was no where else to go.<br /><br />All this blaming PB is just political shite.<br /><br />At the end of the day those that voted against it knew what they were doing and knew that there were only two options on the table that day and they chose not to buy it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-91596385786330969262012-12-16T18:00:30.731+00:002012-12-16T18:00:30.731+00:00Re Deputy Duhamel and JEP comments he has handed o...Re Deputy Duhamel and JEP comments he has handed over the environmental side of P&E to Deputy Labey as his Deputy, so having passed the buildings had very little option but to vote against, having inflated the value of the land then asking the public to buy it was not acceptable.<br /><br />Anonymous it was questioned how Senator Ozouf could ignore the value of Lime Grove yet accept the one for Plemont without question by the very same company. <br /><br />It is this type of "flip flop" approach by the politicians that interested me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-43363372927045924392012-12-16T17:15:54.743+00:002012-12-16T17:15:54.743+00:00In most places such a defeat would have led to som...In most places such a defeat would have led to some resignations at least. Chief Minister Gorst - equivalent to PM - must be first to ask himself the question or others should. It was a substantial "government" defeat after all. But the significant defection of 4 Ministers plus several Assistant Ministers and other usually safe pairs of hands does really mean that this government has died and should be buried - but of course Jersey government is not organised like that!<br />As we all know, we have no means of removing an unwanted government and the Electoral Commission reforms seem unlikely to change that.<br /><br />Also, as I have commented elsewhere, this was a resounding defeat for the embryo plan of this government to draw the "Third Sector" (Charities mostly) under its control. This rejection of the plan in such a public way has damaged the already struggling scheme to tie up charities and their many volunteers with contracts as "cheap labour" and providers of resources and money.<br />WE all know that the JEP Jobs page often reads more like a volunteering advert and the fear that income support might be witheld from those unemployed who refuse or are incapable of doing "voluntary work" is very real in some quarters.<br />Such sentiments are regularly expressed at Scrutiny hearings and there were several outbursts during the Plemont debate that would encourage the "chain gang" mentality. If the deal had gone through to "buy" Plemont the call for "volunteer" labour gangs to prepare the site and build the paths etc would have soon followed.<br /><br />Of course, there is nothing at all wrong with people who genuinly volunteer for such projects but we shoud learn a great deal from recent government behaviour re "Silkworth" and "Home Nursing" etc. and realise that the line between "charity" and "contract" is becoming very confused. Let this latest Plemont failure be a warning to all of us!<br /><br />There are many lessons to be learned from the Plemont fiasco and the "so called political progressives" should be meeting ASAP to discuss these.... Tom Gruchyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01384387998228996741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-26836734921246303572012-12-16T16:53:31.366+00:002012-12-16T16:53:31.366+00:00Re: "CP isn't theft and its not below mar...Re: "CP isn't theft and its not below market value."<br /><br />That depends on your point of view. Mr Hemmings is a willing seller, at £14m. I regard it as theft if the government forcibly tries to make him sell an asset way below market value.<br /><br />The proof of the market value will be a) whenever Mr Hemmimgs sells to someone else or b) whenever he builds 28 executive homes with sea views. £4m to £5m for 28 prime plots with sea views was a gross underestimation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-75582394751751774662012-12-16T14:50:47.378+00:002012-12-16T14:50:47.378+00:00Sam.
"I wonder how many of our states member...Sam.<br /><br />"I wonder how many of our states members would believe they know better than qualified medical professionals."<br /><br />Former Senators Ben Shenton and Jimmy Perchard believed they knew better than qualified professionals and the cost was astronomical not just in monetary terms. The human cost was much <a href="http://voiceforchildren.blogspot.com/2010/09/needless-and-avoidable-suffering-of.html" rel="nofollow">BIGGER</a>voiceforchildrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16825129148579102037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-4099629475947281422012-12-16T13:22:29.089+00:002012-12-16T13:22:29.089+00:00Just a quick note, I realised I accidentally origi...Just a quick note, I realised I accidentally originally wrote that the Constables had a small majority in favour of the purchase. This was wrong, it was 7-5 against, I've corrected it in the above posting.Senator Sam Mézechttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04072393815446147249noreply@blogger.com