tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post8275566780356855401..comments2023-04-02T15:53:46.924+01:00Comments on Senator Sam Mézec: Reform - Option A - Deputies for the States, Constables for the ParishesSenator Sam Mézechttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04072393815446147249noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-1076110562839294792013-02-25T20:29:25.575+00:002013-02-25T20:29:25.575+00:00Tories are absolutely more than welcome on my blog...Tories are absolutely more than welcome on my blog and they are often the ones that provide the best contributions!Senator Sam Mézechttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04072393815446147249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-76108496282925308052013-02-25T15:11:35.764+00:002013-02-25T15:11:35.764+00:00I found this awaiting moderation on a post I had s...I found this awaiting moderation on a post I had stopped checking for further replies:<br />AnonymousJanuary 31, 2013 at 3:51 PM<br /><br />Hey Sam,<br /><br />It's your Porsche-driving, right-wing, dyed-in-the-wool Thatcherite Tory follower here again. How you doing? Our politics will never be the same, but I appreciate what you do and the intelligent way that you put yourself across.<br /><br />Anyway, that little love-in aside, I saw this on the Daily Mail (!) website today and I thought it would be right up your street. Fellow arch Tory Quentin Letts argues passionately for equal voter representation. I thought you might find something useful in it.<br /><br />Sorry for sullying your browser with the Daily Mail, but they do sometimes run a good story.<br /><br />In 23 years as a parliamentary reporter, I've never felt such disgust for our political class, writes QUENTIN LETTS<br /><br />Take it easy, comrade!<br />ReplyDelete<br />AnonymousJanuary 31, 2013 at 4:11 PM<br /><br />Sorry, Ugh It's Him. I posted my comment intended for Sam's blog on your blog. Doh!<br /><br />Would you mind passing it on to him for me please? Sorry and thanks!<br /><br />See, even Tories read your blog!<br />ReplyDeleteUgh, It's Him!https://www.blogger.com/profile/06194792008692398706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-67726283583574412962013-01-31T18:18:02.813+00:002013-01-31T18:18:02.813+00:00An anonymous posted this -
"Sam, there is a...An anonymous posted this - <br /><br />"Sam, there is an interesting article written by Quentin Letts, Daily Mail, page 14, here is an extract:<br /><br />"Parliament works on the basis of electors sending representatives to Westminster and those representatives casting votes in their name. Constituencies must be similar in size. Anything else was - and would be - corrupt. Anything else would place a greater value on the votes of those in smaller seats.<br /><br />The essential idea in western democracy is 'one man one vote'. If that is warped, trust in Parliament withers, agitators prosper and unrest is likely. "<br /><br /><br />-<br /><br />Sorry, I accidentally clicked on the delete button instead of publish and can't find how to get the comment back.<br /><br />Quite right though. The idea of "one man one vote" is just so fundamental and non-controversial everywhere else except Jersey for some reason where large numbers of people think it's acceptable to have constituencies with totally different populations. Mad!Senator Sam Mézechttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04072393815446147249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-78341245959449817332013-01-31T11:17:03.690+00:002013-01-31T11:17:03.690+00:00That's the plan! Just have to try and keep thi...That's the plan! Just have to try and keep this positive and open for everyone.<br /><br />It's quite sad at the moment to see people that would otherwise be allies coming up with uninformed stuff like the comment above about the Troy Rule, and people on the Option A side complaining that the question is fixed so Option B will win, and people on the Option B side saying it's fixed so Option A will win!Senator Sam Mézechttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04072393815446147249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-45078970781266321512013-01-31T07:29:24.262+00:002013-01-31T07:29:24.262+00:00Sam, great post. I hope that those like you who su...Sam, great post. I hope that those like you who support Option A will run an active and well informed campaign and not turn this into a wingeing left vs right campaign moaning about Option B as some people seem to be doing already - that just plays into the hands of the Constables and the establishment who portray Option A as some sort of left wing conspiracy. Option A has a good chance of being seen as the best way forward if a sensible and active campaign on it is followed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-39665372048838270762013-01-25T13:23:21.159+00:002013-01-25T13:23:21.159+00:00But the number of members won't drop before th...But the number of members won't drop before the Troy Rule is discussed.<br /><br />After the referendum, PPC will have a year or so to write the new legislation (and amend current legislation) to implement the results of the vote and put which ever option wins into law. When writing those laws they will look into all the relevant Parliamentary rules that will be affected, including the Troy Rule.<br /><br />Whether the States will vote for it all as a package or individually will determine how much time the Troy Rule will be debated. But it will be before the change over. You don't have to worry about that point. If there is any prospect of it being lost, I can assure you that the might of Reform Jersey will lobby like hell to keep it.<br /><br />But the point I made before still stands. Any States Member can bring forward a proposition tomorrow to abolish the Troy Rule and I reckon an Option C States would be much more likely to ditch it than an Option A States.<br /><br />Constable Crowcroft (who chairs PPC) is going to be in touch with me in a couple of weeks to talk about campaign funding, so during that time I will ask about the Troy Rule because I known that PPC are currently looking at it.Senator Sam Mézechttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04072393815446147249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-61661265075208575982013-01-24T17:22:11.959+00:002013-01-24T17:22:11.959+00:00You say :
> "If Options A or B are won, th...You say :<br />> "If Options A or B are won, the States can (and presumably will) vote to amend the the law limiting the number of Ministers and Assistant Ministers to a number in line with the Troy Rule in a 42 member assembly."<br /><br />"Can". "presumably will".<br />I do hope you're not being naive :)<br />If the number of members drops BEFORE any vote on maintaining the Troy Rule, then it's more likely to be GAME OVER still.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-50548546366874706762013-01-24T12:55:25.957+00:002013-01-24T12:55:25.957+00:00Following on from the points made by Deputy Tadier...Following on from the points made by Deputy Tadier above, the Parish Assembly is an important thing to consider.<br /><br />Currently, if you live in a Parish like St Mary or St John, if you have a Parish Assembly, you only have one Constable and one Deputy to consult with and get your views across to.<br /><br />One of the Electoral Commissions subsidiary recommendations is that in the new super-constituencies, all of the Deputies should be allowed to take part in all of the Parishes assemblies in their district.<br /><br />So under Option A, people in St Mary or St John would be able to have Parish assemblies with not just one Constable and a Deputy, but with 7 Deputies! So their Parish will be able to call upon the service of 8 people to fight their corner on a particular issue of interest to them. And best of all, none of that would be undemocratic.<br /><br />Contrasting that with Option B where they would only be able to call on 6 States Members, instead of 8.<br /><br />I'd have thought on that point all those that purport to support the Parish system would be desperate for Option A to increase all Parishes representation in the States.Senator Sam Mézechttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04072393815446147249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-71739524886190243662013-01-23T14:53:42.458+00:002013-01-23T14:53:42.458+00:00GREAT post Sam, thanks so much for all your hard w...GREAT post Sam, thanks so much for all your hard work fighting for democracy in Jersey. :) <br />Would be a shame if some progressives end up actually promoting the status quo - option A is a step in the right direction and gives greater chance for further reforms. All aboard for option A! :) Kit Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09780803684943575935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-65168322651533907142013-01-23T01:27:56.591+00:002013-01-23T01:27:56.591+00:00I thought about adding a section on the Troy Rule ...I thought about adding a section on the Troy Rule in this blog but thought it might be too technical for this particular post. The Troy Rule is mentioned in the Electoral Commissions report.<br /><br />I say this - if you think a vote for Option C secures the Troy Rule then you are gravely mistaken. There is only one safeguard for maintaining the Troy Rule, and that is electing politicians committed to it's principle, and that will be true under any of the 3 options.<br /><br />The Troy Rule is currently enshrined into Jersey law at the moment limiting the number of Ministers and Assistant Ministers to 22, and has an amendment meaning the number will go down to 21 if Option C wins and the States goes down to 49 members in 2014.<br /><br />It is a law, like any other law in Jersey, that can be amended or repealed by any States Assembly at any time. <br /><br />If Options A or B are won, the States can (and presumably will) vote to amend the the law limiting the number of Ministers and Assistant Ministers to a number in line with the Troy Rule in a 42 member assembly.<br /><br />In the current assembly, there is talk of a Justice Minister, a Foreign Affairs Minister, a Minister for Children etc etc, which if they are all won, then the Troy Rule would have to be abandoned, and we would enter the situation you describe of having no opposition and checks and balances. That is a perfectly possible scenario if we maintain the status quo.<br /><br />The only way that can be stopped is if the democratic argument is won for maintaining the Troy Rule. Do you really think that will be an easier argument to win in an assembly with the Constables in? I put it to you that in an assembly with proper equal representation like Option A, the argument for keeping the Troy Rule will be much more likely to be maintained.Senator Sam Mézechttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04072393815446147249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-80412679007245183652013-01-23T00:48:52.938+00:002013-01-23T00:48:52.938+00:00So to recap - VOTE C or it's all over.
It does...So to recap - VOTE C or it's all over.<br />It doesn't matter who you can vote for, what they're called, where they come from, if the backbench opposition is outnumbered by the ministerial block vote, the opposition is dead. Establishment rules forever. Please don't sleepwalk into that!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-51866702021985338532013-01-23T00:43:44.814+00:002013-01-23T00:43:44.814+00:00The whole referendum is flawed because it addresse...The whole referendum is flawed because it addresses several different issues with many permutations of selecting them, but compresses the whole lot into just two new choices which both reduce the number of members and destroys the Troy Rule.<br /><br />The only sane response is to vote C, keep it the same for now - i.e. Please come back with a better referendum next time. It's vital to keep a credible opposition going, that's far more important than the districts, senators, or constables. The number of members is key. The rest of it can wait.<br /><br />If we end up with just 42 in there, the ministers can do anything they want and can't be opposed by the outnumbered backbenchers. Don't be blind-sided into that catastrophe by the lure of the less important issues.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-77595376612275830232013-01-22T21:27:50.111+00:002013-01-22T21:27:50.111+00:00Hi Sam.
Well done to you, You've set it out p...Hi Sam.<br /><br />Well done to you, You've set it out plane & simple. I shell be happy to follow your lead. I shell be even happier when you go for the States, as you know we have to many that just can not speak in plane English. <br /><br />TJW. thejerseywayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02401815536804277436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2111456314243683939.post-31222943535175345122013-01-22T21:04:07.132+00:002013-01-22T21:04:07.132+00:00Sam,you have set out a very compelling case here f...Sam,you have set out a very compelling case here for voting for option A, and a great case for a revitalised Parish system with the Constables being able to dedicate their full attentions to the Parish. I hope it is widely read. The case for 'non -political' constables is well made in the anecdote with your grandparents. I believe that most islanders would want their Constable to be removed from island wide politics, but to hold the Deputies to account at parish meetings by FINDING OUT the will of their parishioners on important issues, by holding more assemblies. This will do wonders for representation at both municipal and central levelsDeputy Montfort Tadierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02702165660857648225noreply@blogger.com